Basically, it goes like this...

[Joel]

Architect designs an apartment building, and hires a construction company to build it; he is the landlord.

He lets people live there indefinitely, rent-free, as long as they maintain the building and keep it in top shape - they way he made it; and even says they can add on to the building and improve it if they want. They have free reign of the place as long they don't ruin it. He will provide the money they need for maintainence and improvements.

One of the construction workers who helped build it decides HE should be the landlord (for whatever stupid reason he thinks that). This guy talks to one of the tenants an tells the tenant how he feels, and tries to get the tenant to go along with him - which is what happens.

Landlord finds out, and says "Okay, if one or more of you think you can support the upkeep of this building I've made, go ahead and try. I'll sit back and watch what happens. Go for it."

Soon there are many tenants who try doing it on their own - maintaining the building using their own money, or by borrowing money from other tenants, or whatever. But they are failing, and the building gets in bad shape. Still, they keep trying. The landlord, in the meantime, says nothing, and just watches from a distance.

Some of the tenants, however, DON'T want this to happen, so they keep in touch with the landlord, asking him to help them do things his way. And he does help them enough that it keeps the building from being totally destroyed. These good tenants still have to deal with the bad ones, though, and they ask the landlord why that is, since they are on his side.

Landlord says: "My authority over this building has been challenged. The best way to settle the matter is to let everyone do what they want for the time being, just to see which side has the right to run this place. Yes, I could just kick out the bad guys, but then what would that prove? That I'm a bully? No, let them continue a little while longer. When it gets to the point that the building is in real danger, I'll put a stop to it."

The tenants ask, "But why don't you keep us - the good tenants - in nice apartments? Why won't you help US? We're on your side!!"

Landlord replies, "The issue is whether I have right to run the building, or the construction worker. I need to know which tenants are going to be on my side no matter what, and to know that THEY know I'm the rightful landlord. During this time, if I give you all you want and need, then others may turn good just so they can get the best of everything. I still won't know who is really on my side! No, I need to let everyone go through the bad, and watch to see who trusts me enough to wait until I step in."

Some of the good tenants balk and complain at that, and walk away. A few still hang on, knowing the landlord is right. The ones who stay ask one more question: "But once the matter is settled, won't we be left here with a badly damaged apartment building? That sucks."

The landlord says, "No. I can restore everything back to the way it originally was, and I will. You don't need to worry about anything. Just do your best, and when the time comes I will kick the construction worker out with all his friends. Then you can stay, and I will fix everything. Even those who have gotten sick from the dirty conditions around here. I have medicine. It will all work out. Just get through this, and you'll see."

The good tenants went back to their apartments, satisfied that things will be better someday. They just knew it. And that's where it's at right now. The tenants are waiting for the day when the landlord kicks out the bad guys and fixes up the building, and brings in the medicine for the sick people. The building is in pretty bad shape right now, so it won't be long before he steps in. It's just a matter of time.

[CyberWraith]

So Gods a Slum Landlord?

Who doesn't mind letting the few good tennants suffer just to prove a point,

Not such a nice guy then.....

[Joel]

In the bigger picture, God not only made the "building", he made the "tenants" as well. He has the right to say what happens to everything and everyone. It all belongs to Him, so it's His prerogative. The issue has been raised that He DOESN'T have that right - an issue raised by one of His own angels that He created.

When that issue was raised, God could've just wiped everything out and started over again. But He didn't because it would prove nothing. How can you respect and follow someone who bullies his way to the top? You can't. So, to settle the issue once and for all, He basically said to the bad angel, "Okay, let's see who's right", and for a short time He is allowing humans (His creation) to try it without Him. A thousand years is like one day to Him, so what seems like a long time to us is only a few days from God's perspective.

And, knowing that He can--and will-- repair all the damage anyway, those who really believe and trust in Him have nothing to worry about. Just get through this time of testing, and after that everything will be fine.

[CyberWraith]

So it's Bow down before me and Worship or I will destroy you utterly and forever!
That doesn't sound like the actions of a bully to you?

[Joel]

No. Think of it from a different angle: If you put your blood, sweat and tears into building a home for yourself, and it becomes infested with termites, are you being a "bully" by killing them off? Or are you protecting the home you built?

Okay, so you can argue that the termites weren't built in to the home, and they are true invaders that should be destroyed. Fine. But anyone who goes against God is, in effect, invaders in the sense that they are corrupting the "house" he built - this planet, which was put here for the humans he made. And invaders must go.

It's not being a bully, it's being protective of His creation. Besides, if you're not against God, you have nothing worry about. ;)

[Jay]

Very Good Joel.. I'm at awww because it's so clear and true.. I don't even need to read stuff like this.

[Beethoven]

Um, that picture is close to offensive, but she isn't nude so I'll let it pass.

[netscape 6]

While Jesus prolly didn't have long hair, and fair skin, like the European portral we're used to, I think that's Jesus.

[CyberWraith]

watches the joke fly right over netscapes head :mymymy:

[Mooseman]

You're in good company Nets, I missed the joke too. Another case of giraffe's to me I'm afraid:) .

[CyberWraith]

If you build a house and Termites invade then you fumigate the house ASAP, you don't sit back and watch them destroy the house simply because you can always build another one,

You still don't stand by and watch your loved ones suffer and die just to prove a point,

It simply does not make sense,

[CyberWraith]

You're in good company Nets, I missed the joke too. Another case of giraffe's to me I'm afraid:) .

it's a backhanded reference to Jay's involvement in "BreastGate"

have we got it now ?

[netscape 6]

color me whooshed :)

[historic_bruno]

Jay's involvement in "BreastGate"
Ahahahaa :D

[Mooseman]

*Lightbulbs over Mooseman's head:)

[Julie]

it's a backhanded reference to Jay's involvement in "BreastGate"

have we got it now ?


hahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahaha

OMG

My stomach hurts from laughing.

[Jay]

hahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahaha

OMG

My stomach hurts from laughing.

:) I made someone happy at least.. :o

[Jay]

*Lightbulbs over Mooseman's head:)

It's time my friend.. Ditch the Avatar... :p Time of renew of new ways of your status and ways and well ; will see...

[MoreBandwidthPls]

No. Think of it from a different angle: If you put your blood, sweat and tears into building a home for yourself, and it becomes infested with termites, are you being a "bully" by killing them off? Or are you protecting the home you built?

Okay, so you can argue that the termites weren't built in to the home, and they are true invaders that should be destroyed. Fine. But anyone who goes against God is, in effect, invaders in the sense that they are corrupting the "house" he built - this planet, which was put here for the humans he made. And invaders must go.

It's not being a bully, it's being protective of His creation. Besides, if you're not against God, you have nothing worry about. ;)Look at it from the termite's point of view. They would cry "not fair" and leave just a smidgen of doubt in the minds of the other residents of the apartment building that maybe things aren't really all that fair. This doubt could be preyed on and amplified, and before long the calls for changing the landlord would be loud and demanding.

The experiment continues. We are all part of it. It finishes when the word 'all' in Matthew 24:14 is satisfied - not a moment sooner, or later.

Power of choice for all - isn't that a fair go for all? Who would then have reason to complain, or to see that all was done fair and square?

Psst: It pays to be up to date on the facts - it has long term implications...

[Jay]

Look at it from the termite's point of view. They would cry "not fair" and leave just a smidgen of doubt in the minds of the other residents of the apartment building that maybe things aren't really all that fair. This doubt could be preyed on and amplified, and before long the calls for changing the landlord would be loud and demanding.

The experiment continues. We are all part of it. It finishes when the word 'all' in Matthew 24:14 is satisfied - not a moment sooner, or later.

Power of choice for all - isn't that a fair go for all? Who would then have reason to complain, or to see that all was done fair and square?

Psst: It pays to be up to date on the facts - it has long term implications...

True,, hey what made you say of these things.?

I will teach something soon unto you... I think at least.

[MoreBandwidthPls]

I keep an open mind...

[Joel]

Wow, MBP, impressive post!! Seriously. Right on the mark with that. Almost wondered if wrote it in my sleep or something... but then I saw your name. Right on! :grin:

[MoreBandwidthPls]

I understand nothing that's been posted on this part of the bb.

Logic has even let me down. :confused:
Logic or Faith? Here is a conundrum for you:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen.

For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:1-3 (KJV Bible)

Not everything can be explained by logic. It pays to explore the alternatives and make a wise decision based on the facts as you perceive them.

[netscape 6]

Here's what I don't understand though, the landlord let people move in long after he stopped coming around and leaving evidence that the building codes that he left are correct, and threats of everlasting death (I guess that would be eviction) if I don't follow those codes, which parts of creep me out. Not only that but there's so many many other building codes, from ones that tell the building was weaved together, and will one day be torn down in a dance of destruction to be weaved anew, to ones of warrior landlords, to building codes that tell how the building formed naturally and one day the building will be ever lasting cold when entropy drives the cost of fuel oil up to high, and on another day the very particles of the building will all be crumbled.


How could a reasonable landlord give his tenants reason, then leave them with spectrums of building codes, then punish those who don't pick the right ones?

The only thing I know for sure are what my perceptions are, I can not know if they're correct because it always can be an elaborate ruse, but I'm coming to understand the only absolute truth is within yourself. You must seek contentment within yourself before you can find it outside, you must find strength within yourself before you can have it outside. You must have peace within yourself before you can find it outside.

If there is a divine force I should know, and I feel there is, that force will have given me the ability to find che from with in for anything outside is suspect.

[Julie]

Faith is just cacaa-poopo with nothing to back it up.


Well, we won't know that until there is a fat lady singing and there a white light.

[MoreBandwidthPls]

Here's what I don't understand though, the landlord let people move in long after he stopped coming around and leaving evidence that the building codes that he left are correct, and threats of everlasting death (I guess that would be eviction) if I don't follow those codes, which parts of creep me out. Not only that but there's so many many other building codes, from ones that tell the building was weaved together, and will one day be torn down in a dance of destruction to be weaved anew, to ones of warrior landlords, to building codes that tell how the building formed naturally and one day the building will be ever lasting cold when entropy drives the cost of fuel oil up to high, and on another day the very particles of the building will all be crumbled.

How could a reasonable landlord give his tenants reason, then leave them with spectrums of building codes, then punish those who don't pick the right ones?

The only thing I know for sure are what my perceptions are, I can not know if they're correct because it always can be an elaborate ruse, but I'm coming to understand the only absolute truth is within yourself. You must seek contentment within yourself before you can find it outside, you must find strength within yourself before you can have it outside. You must have peace within yourself before you can find it outside.

If there is a divine force I should know, and I feel there is, that force will have given me the ability to find che from with in for anything outside is suspect.Some would say this is "the Holy Spirit working in your heart" - biblespeak for gradual awareness that there is something more to life than just getting up in the morning and coping with the day. There must be a master plan, a reason for existence, otherwise it is all pointless.

You will find that most religious teachings espouse a superior being (or beings) of one kind or another, and offer some hope for the future - the looking glass that goes beyond the point of physical death. As humans, we desperately cling to that to make life meaningful.

[MoreBandwidthPls]

If it comes to choosing logic of faith, Logic has to be the winner.

Logic can be backed up. Faith is just cacaa-poopo with nothing to back it up.

It's really not to hard to figure out, you know.Read the conundrum again - faith is the backup to logic!

[MoreBandwidthPls]

Well, we won't know that until there is a fat lady singing and there a white light.Wanna hedge your bets? If you vaguely make out the fat lady and the distant choir singing (or the sound of crackling flames), maybe it is too late to wonder if it is so? Better to be informed, and choose.

[Aaron.Walkhouse]

Take it from an experienced wielder. Faith has weight. It's real. :D

[netscape 6]

Some would say this is "the Holy Spirit working in your heart" - biblespeak for gradual awareness that there is something more to life than just getting up in the morning and coping with the day. There must be a master plan, a reason for existence, otherwise it is all pointless.

You will find that most religious teachings espouse a superior being (or beings) of one kind or another, and offer some hope for the future - the looking glass that goes beyond the point of physical death. As humans, we desperately cling to that to make life meaningful.

I'm shifting more and more to Zen if anything, maybe I was in the process of enlightenment in a past life, and it's resurfacing.

Hard to pin down exactly without more data. Maybe it's the wisdom of the cosmic AC:D

[Beethoven]

If it comes to choosing logic of faith, Logic has to be the winner.

Logic can be backed up. Faith is just cacaa-poopo with nothing to back it up.

It's really not to hard to figure out, you know.
I also think that you value logic too highly, nic. Logic can be backed up with false assumptions, eg paranoia. Logic can be stymied, eg paradoxes. Logic can be limited, eg computer chess programs. (Yeah, yeah, I know all about Big Blue v Kasparov, but Big Blue didn't really win, Kasparov got all upset and lost. Besides, it's now believed by many that IBM cheated).

And, to present my argument in logical terms: it's not a question or AND/OR, it's a question of whether AND. And if your position is that AND doesn't exist, where's the backup for that?

[Zarathustra]

Like all religions, the Holy Religion of the Invisible Pink Unicorn is based upon both Logic and Faith.

We have Faith that She is Pink; we Logically know that She is Invisible, because we can't see Her.